Page41 Instructional Opinions
#1 Pattens in a C-172; … #2 Type of Instruction; …#3 Use of Yoke; …#4 Opinion on FAA; …#5 Bank Angle and Speed; …First Lesson; …Yoke Control; …Getting Radar Help; …Looking, Seeing, Recognizing; …Using Checklists; …Landing on the Numbers; … What Helped with Landings; ..Dumb Things; …

Opinion 1
The idea in any airplane is consistency in all flight realms. Yet, one should also learn the planes full capabilities. With trainers like 172's there isn't much to screw-up other than landing mode. I hate to see anything but a tight approach. Keep it very tight in downwind, a short base and then do what's necessary to land. Full flaps, slip, idle power in trainers. A military approach. Adjust for winds & configuration as appropriate.

Too many instructors allow wide long downwinds with idea of slower flight & a long slow finals which they teach techniques that should be demonstrated elsewhere. Over the fence @ 60-70 kts is too fast for a 172 - you should slow to 55 over the fence and touch down slightly higher than stall. Again, too many instructors work upon stall speeds at some safe altitude concentrating upon PTS rather than showing a student the aircraft capabilities. For example, I can show you how to be 100 kts on base & arrive over fence @ 55 kts, executing a perfect full stall landing. You can do this too with about ten minutes of training.

Opinion 2
Sounds like a couple of instructors who actually have their student's welfare in mind! Different approaches or at least different ways of expressing it.

Those who restrict their teaching methods by the student's fears of the unknown are setting them up for a fatal accident.

Bottom line is to give the best instruction you can based on what you can teach.

Opinion 3
Every comment so far has related to pulling the yoke BACK. I teach pulling/lifting the yoke UP. The geometry of the human arm and the structure of the yoke makes the yoke twist pull down and bind when pulled. The pilot must not use a full fist. Instead, use one or two fingers and lift up and the yoke will achieve its maximum movement. Check this movement out on the ground and note how much the last few inches have an upward thrust.

Opinion 4
Problems with the FAA are uncommon. In dealings with the FISDO they have been great to work with. I have found my FAA inspectors to be courteous, helpful, understanding, and cooperative.

Try to have all the paper work in order before going to them. Don't do anything questionable without talking to them first. They will help you find an acceptable way to get things done.

There are a few people who work for the FAA who are not so great. Never a problem that we couldn't resolve and remain friends..

Opinion 5
Bank angle determines the amount of your total lift that is toward the center of the turn. This lift provides a force that moves your momentum vector. This allows your direction to change. This force is in direct proportion to mass. The momentum vector you are changing is proportional to the square of your velocity. As your speed increases the momentum change you have to make for a given number of degrees of turn increases with the square of your speed. As a result, you need more central acceleration to change the direction of the momentum vector at a constant rate. By making constant rate turns at different speeds. You will find that your bank angle increases as your speed increases.

First Lesson
Gene, for a first lesson this is all too much (who am I to talk, I've got a >total of 5.3 hours!) Hey, make sure you go to the bathroom first and then >get in and enjoy it! After the first lesson is when you can start working >on things! Just get to know how your instructor works a little (talk to them, and don't be afraid to ask questions that you have!). Steve

Gene's response:
Steve,
I do believe that on close examination, you will note that I have not included any "flying lessons" in my suggested list of things to be introduced during the first flight. What I have tried to present are some very basic elements that once permitted will come under the learning law of primacy.

Gene Whitt wrote in original message
>> Don't let more than one finger touch the back of the yoke. Use only the thumb To push with.

Why: To allow the 'natural' full-fist grip to fit all of the bumps on the yoke will lead a student down the wrong path.

>> Use only one finger to move the trim wheel. Don't pinch. Keep track of how far you move it.

Why: The Cessnas have designed into the trim movement a relationship with flap movement. This is an 'unknown and untaught' relationship mostly due to moving the trim by pinching. Starting out with the finger tip as the correct way to move the trim is a problem preventative.

>> How you sit and where you sit must be always the same.

Why: A person must be taught to correctly adjust the seat in height and distance. To allow a student to sit incorrectly or with variations means that the required 'sight' pictures will be difficult to find.

>> Use your index finger as an index to set the power and control all power changes.

Why: If you learn to properly set the throttle with your finger you can accurately and quickly get desired power settings. My students set the required run-up power setting in one move using the finger.

>> Never turn without looking and talking about being clear.

Why: Because clearing is essential for every turn.

>> Don't get into the plane until you know what the instructor's plan is for the lesson.

Why: If the first flight is a joy ride, tell the student. The student must be informed just how much is expected of him and what to expect of the instructor.

>> Try to leave and arrive from a different direction on every flight. Always take time to find out where you are and where everything else is. Learn the sounds of flying.

Why: The more quickly you can orient the student to the area, the better will the student be able to concentrate on aircraft control. Knowing where you are gives a sense of security.

>> Don't leave the plane until you know what to prepare for the next lesson. Prepare by reading and asking questions.

Why: Every lesson will consist of review, new, and setting of standards. Students need to know what to expect and what is expected.

>> Tape record every lesson on the ground and in the air. When you become an instructor the tapes will be a good way to determine how to or not to instruct.

Why: Steve indicates that this is all too much. It certainly is unless you have a way to relive all the events and prepare questions for the next flight. Your memory is on the tape.

>> Ask questions before you fly. Ask questions after you fly. Ask for answers to questions from this group.

Why: The only question that cannot be answered is the unasked question. I have never charged for my talking time because I do not want 'money' to be used to prevent learning. Besides, no one could afford me.

>> Learning to fly can be overwhelming. Any time you do not succeed in a lesson, the cause of difficulty does not lie with you if you came advised for and prepared for the lesson.

Why: Any lesson, including the first, will overwhelm the student who has not adequately prepared. I never spend less than half an hour flight preparation with the student. Usually, I spend much more.

>> Write out (copy from tape) the radio procedures for each lesson. Practice aloud what you are going to say. Read what you have written without punctuation. Radio is 90% canned
...always the same. You will soon learn to hear better by knowing what to expect over the radio.

Why: It is important that the student succeed on the radio. Before the first flight my students have visited the tower so as to put faces with the voices. Every communication is rehearsed and if necessary, written. Knowing what to say, when to say it and how to say it best begins with the first lesson.

>> You will never know all you are supposed to know. Don't fake it. If you don't know, say so.

Why: One of the most difficult things a pilot will ever say on the radio will be to reveal a lack of knowledge. Interestingly, the more experienced the pilot, the more willing the admission of
ignorance.

>> So many students, so little time.

Why: The system is becoming more complex, the aircraft faster and FAA enforcement more punitive toward pilot deficiency. The less than competent pilot is almost guaranteed to violate the FARs just getting into the airplane with intention to start the engine.

Gene Whitt

P.S. Steve, thanks for giving me a reason to expand on my original remarks. I had never realized how overwhelming a first flight could be without ever taking off.

Yoke Control
At the present time I am flying with three different pilots who are fighting practically the same IFR training difficulty. The way they hold the yoke is making progress very slow and frustrating for them and for me.

One of them I taught to fly for about 30 hours and then suggested that he quit until he had more time to fly more frequently. I had taught his father. He quit and then started again with another instructor because I was fully engaged. He got his private and came to me for his IFR rating. The other instructor allowed him to use a full fist on the yoke.

The second is my aircraft partner who has about five years of VFR flying since his private. As with most self-instruction he developed poor yoke habits. Finally he has realized that he was not making progress and is working through the withdrawal process of two-finger flying.

The third has been flying for 38 years and was referred to my by an FBO after 40 hours of instruction showed lack of progress. Just when I though I had him flying so that flying was not part of the problem, he went on a 61-hour flight to Alaska and on his return he has reverted back to the full fist grip again.

IFR skills are complex and flying MUST not be a part of problem. All of these pilots have some weakness in communications. This weakness causes them to tense up when keying the mike. At one time or another depending on their stress their fist will turn white around the yoke will pressing this tiny-teeny lil' mike switch. One of them actually has a hole in his thumb at the end of a flight. Please don't key the mike with over one finger on the yoke.

The best way to prove to yourself that flying can be done with only one or two fingers is to fly hands-off. You can learn to climb, descend and fly level using only the rudder. Once you become comfortable using just the rudder then you can allow some single finger input. The yoke can be moved with only one finger. Do yourself a favor and practice the no touch and light touch flying at every opportunity.

The most difficult aspect of every pilots future flying will be devoted to 'unlearning' a previously developed inappropriate flying habit. The best legacy any instructor can pass through to any student is that there will be a minimum of inappropriate flying habits perpetuated.

Getting Radar Help
I believe that the question is really how to initiate a radar advisory.
Callup:
Bay approach Cessna 1234X Request

When Bay responds by something to the effect...
C1234X go ahead with request.

Cessna 1234X is C-172/Alpha (position) at 3500 request transit your airspace enroute podunk

You will then be given a squawk and perhaps a heading vector.

Several of the previous threads about radar had indicated that the students have not been instructed in how to initiate the process.

Specialists may have multiple frequencies, ground lines, paper work and be fully occupied. The quick call-up allows him to pick a time to respond. For this reason it is best to allow a bit of extra time before reaching the critical boundary.

My wife has a little sign on the refrig that seems appropriate.
"Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."

Looking, Seeing, Recognizing
There is a talent that a few have in going from looking, to seeing and then having recognition.

As a teacher I had a rainy day game that I used to control the classroom. The class is grouped by tables or rows. One group would put their heads down and cover their eyes. Initially, I would take my keys, a coin or familiar object and place it in plain sight, where it could be seen from anywhere in the room. The actual placement would be unusual. Such as on someone's head, balanced on a doorknob or hanging on a wall.

The selected group are then free to rise and even walk around in search. A person finding it must control himself and not jump or shout but must proceed quietly to his seat. First one to his seat gets to 'hide' it next time. The other groups avoid looking in the correct direction. The quietest group gets to be the next 'looking' group.

Over the years the most interesting thing I found is that it seemed always the same students who seemed to find the object first. I did this on occasion during Adult Education Ground School and found that some are just better at seeing things. Instructors may be no better at finding unfamiliar airports than students.

Interesting thing about looking for airports. Everyone tends to look in the direction used by the most experienced pilot. Knowing this, on dual cross-countries I always look away from airports in the hope I can misguide the student.

Item:
If you are looking and flying into the sun, fly further and look back. Much easier to see with the sun behind you.

Climb and stay high when looking for an airport. You are far more likely to see an airport from 4500 AGL than you are from 1500 AGL.

Using Checklists
The habit patterns you develop now in the beginning will follow you all through the years that you fly. Checking an item more than once is standard procedure in flying. It's a grave mistake to develop a pattern that causes you to believe that just because you checked something once, you don't have to check it again. The prime reason for checklists or repetition isn't because the average pilot isn't smart enough to know when he/she has already done something. It's a safeguard against distraction. It forms a routine that translates into a safety margin you need, or will need sometime during your time in the air.

If the checklist calls for a check on an item; call it out to yourself; touch it;(in the case of a primer check, test it for a firm lock). Get in the habit of taking these checks VERY seriously. Your attitude about checklists and the way you use them will mark you faster than anything else I can image, as a good pilot or a bad one.
Dudley Henriques

Landing on the Numbers
Hmmmmm....okay, I'll play: "land on the numbers" means land on the numbers, which means you're in contact with the ground and beginning the roll out while on top of the runway "numbers".

In previous posts, there was a bit of discussion about the safety of this vs. landing longer in relation to emergencies and general piloting practice. While I'm all for safety (anal actually), to dismiss landing on the numbers with a wave of the hand as a practice that "shouldn't" be done seems overly cautious and not always applicable to me. What I teach students is to maintain
situational awareness and suit their approach to meet the demands present at the time of the approach, while also maintaining the safety and integrity of the flight. Yes, the model by default is to aim for the numbers and touchdown afterwards, exactly where depends on the approach speed of the plane, the student's approach quality, etc. However, there are times when setting down on the numbers is more appropriate, say for example if the tower is asking you to keep your speed up, land and exit as soon as practical. Having a displaced threshold helps in such a scenario, but isn't necessary.

What seems to be missing in the discussion thus far is what is at the heart of setting a plane down "on the numbers": technique. To me, "setting a plane down on the numbers" has always implied a "precision landing", which means that you set everything up during the approach so that you touch down exactly where you plan to. IOW, a well-orchestrated, short field landing that may or may not include the 'short' part. You have a steeper-than-"normal" approach with full flaps and you fly at an airspeed designated by the manufacturer of the airplane. You visualize the final approach to touchdown at a predetermined spot, say the numbers, and you decide where and when you need to be on base and final to make that happen. (this is where knowing one's airplane comes into play, but I digress)

The final approach is performed at a constant descent rate, angle and airspeed, and the flight path is aimed at the "spot", or the numbers in this scenario. There is little or no float involved (I insist on none), with touchdown near the stall speed. The 'short' in "short field" may then be applied at the discretion of the pilot. The key here is that if this is set up correctly and an emergency occurs, you can still make the runway, provided that you follow the proper emergency procedures. If you can do this, when the day comes that you have to set the thing down "on the numbers" for *real*, you'll be able to handle the situation.

I find myself bewildered by pilots who come in for checkouts or additional certificates/ratings and who claim to be able to land on a spot but make the same "normal" approach and blow past their designated point on a consistent basis, simply because they can't make a precision approach. I truly wonder if they could possibly ever touch down that close to the approach end of the runway. They seem to have something almost mystical about doing so, something I've come to call "number shyness". With some of them I wonder if they could set the thing down on any spot that they predetermine, but I digress again...

Knowing, perfecting and using a stabilized, precision approach is one of the elements that cause you to be in control of the plane (and where it sets down) instead of the plane being in contol of you (and setting down wherever it damn well pleases). ;)Jerry Adair adair@iglou.com

Second Opinion
Land on the numbers" means land on the numbers, which means you're in contact with the ground and beginning the roll out while on top of the runway "numbers".

In previous posts, there was a bit of discussion about the safety of this vs.landing longer in relation to emergencies and general piloting practice. While I'm all for safety (anal actually), to dismiss landing on the numbers with a wave of the hand as a practice that "shouldn't" be done seems overly cautious and not always applicable to me. Well...It wasn't really intended as a blanket policy, but more of a "don't land long on short runways and don't land short on long runways".

To me, "setting a plane down on the numbers" has always implied a "precision landing", which means that you set everything up during the approach so that you touch down exactly where you plan to. A well-orchestrated, short field landing that may or may not include the 'short' part. You have a steeper-than-"normal" approach with full flaps and you fly at an airspeed designated by the manufacturer of the airplane. You visualize the final approach to touchdown at a predetermined spot, say the numbers, and you decide where and when you need to be on base and final to make that happen. (this is where knowing one's airplane comes into play, but I digress) The final approach is performed at a constant descent rate, angle and airspeed, and the flight path is aimed at the "spot", or the numbers in this scenario. There is little or no float involved (I insist on none), with touchdown near the stall speed. I try to make 'em all at stall speed. I've had several remark about me being the only Bonanza (Debonair) pilot they ever say that made full stall landings.

The 'short' in "short field" may then be applied at the discretion of the pilot. The key here is that if this is set up correctly and an emergency occurs, you can still make the runway, provided that you follow the proper emergency procedures. If you can do this, when the day comes that you have to set the thing down "on the numbers" for *real*, you'll be able to handle the situation. I find myself bewildered by pilots who come in for checkouts or additional certificates/ratings and who claim to be able to land on a spot but make the same "normal" approach and blow past their designated point on a consistent basis, simply because they can't make a precision approach.

The ones that scare me are the ones who drag it in, hanging on the prop and then kill the power to let it drop on the designated spot. Some years back I saw four guys in a Cherokee do that at an informal spot landing contest.

I thought I did well as I landed with the with the nose gear on one side of the tape and the mains on the other (less than 24 inches off as I recall). The mains were still skidding when they crossed the tape. Then the airport manager gout his trusty "V-tail" and landed the mains right on the tape. Cut it right in two.

I truly wonder if they could possibly ever touch down that close to the approach end of the runway. They seem to have something almost mystical about doing so, something I've come to call "number shyness". With some of them I wonder if they could set the thing down on any spot that they predetermine, but I digress again. But a good digression and valid.

Knowing, perfecting and using a stabilized, precision approach is one of the elements that cause you to be in control of the plane (and where it sets down) instead of the plane being in contol of you (and setting down wherever it damn well pleases). ;)

I do about one out of five patterns as stabilized. The rest of the time I try to vary it as much as practical. I'd say that about 50 % of the time ATC > has me doing something other than a stabilized pattern. (except at night)

That means about the first five hours are going to be nothing but, stalls (approach, departure and acellerated), turns around and on a point, Dutch Rolls, lazy eights, and lots of landings (short field, soft field, no flaps, and all with an aim for precision). Then once I get the feel of the
airplane back, it'll be grab an instructor and back into the clouds and an instrument competency check.
Roger (K8RI)

What Helped with Landings (non-instructor)
Anyway, I learned to land. Stick with it and it will come. What finally did it for me was hearing that landing is 'flying the plane onto the runway.' I don't know why, but the concept/visualization of trying to keep the plane level, as it lost energy did it for me. Of course, I try to keep the plane level. But without any power it'll start to decend. So I'll need to keep pulling the nose up. That means the tail will start to sink, and as I try to keep flying the plane the landing will ust happen.'

I had an instructor who talked about landing as flying into a tunnel. You fly the approach to the entrance to the tunnel, then fly into it. He said that analogy had made landings click for a lot of folks.

He also had me fly all the way "through the tunnel", five feet off the ground, stay on the runway centerline, without touching down. That was tricky, but most excellent practice, and I highly recommend it - but ONLY if you have an instructor with you.

Dumb Things
I have yet to have anyone tell me his/her CFI did this to them. I think I was only several hours (maybe 10) into training in a 172. We had, of course, begun emergency e.o. practices by then. One afternoon, we go to the practice area and do some airwork including engine out stuff-a tough subject for me as I could never seem to figure out how much to spiral down etc. etc. After several attempts with appropriate "stern encouragement" he directs me to climb to 5000' just about a mile from the runway. As I reach altitude, out comes the hand and out goes the throttle! I start the procedures, still pretty nervous about the whole thing, and he says, as I reach best glide, "You know, this isn't what would most likely happen..." Huh? I falter, he says, "Chances are you would break a crankshaft or some such thing, and besides the engine is still really on... this is more realistic," as the hand goes out and pulls the mixture completely out. The in a flash he reaches over and turns off the ignition.

The engine falters but for some reason still keeps sputtering while he mutters about how the fuel is somehow getting past. So then he says, pull up the nose! Off goes the stall horn and sure enough the prop is slowed by the relative wind and, thud, it stops. By this time both my jaw and we have dropped about 1500'! Meanwhile my CFI is trying to drill home his lesson-"look," (he's yelling now), "the plane still glides, you can still control it, the flap motor still works etc...." All, however, was really lost on me at least at the time, as I am as white as a ghost and not hearing much of anything. Finally, he tells me to reach over and start the engine. I turn the key and hear what sounds like the dull sound of a tired battery. "Turn it off....., now turn it on again." Sure enough it fires up and we land. "Do you want to do some touch and goes," he asks, but I am truly done for the day! Two days later the plane is in the hanger having the starter replaced! By this time I'm beginning to develop that aviation black humor and quite amused...

I have asked a number of pilots, students, etc about whether they have had this done to them. None so far, and in fact, some get upset, saying that it is illegal and unsafe etc. My CFI pointed out at the time that he planned it so we were within gliding range of the airport, and that it was a valuable lesson. I whole-heartedly agree, although I wasn't so sure at the time. If ever it happened I don't think I would be so thrown by seeing that prop standing still through the windshield!

Another trick, one which I bet is more common, was to distract me and then turn the tanks off. The engine abruptly quit, but I was amazed by how quickly it fire up when just turning the selector switch compared to the stop the prop trick. How many others have had these experiences or other memorable CFI tricks?

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